it no me hi thanks for coming last night around 9 o’clock and right up until midnight the number one tweet in the world was the Central Park five tweet hash tag CP five and if you’re out
there on the web tonight watching this show please feel free to tweet your questions or your comments will be looking forward
to reading them later on and will also be taking questions this evening from the audience here at the time
Center in New York about ten years ago or so a college student came to visit me at that time see old
times building here and she was writing a paper about violence and women and media coverage in race and she had
some ideas about turning into a book and i was just thrilled because she was concentrating
on the Central Park jogger case a which I just spent heckuva lot of time
writing about with my colleague Kevin Flynn here at
The Times and so we set up in the times lunch room for two hours or so talking about this and
at the end but I said what are you gonna do after this and she
said our I think I’m gonna make a documentary about it and 8th I thought but did not say little girl I out if you yeah and I by skill it’s a lot of money allotted
time with the guys are hard to get its oh my god so much work and she said
well my my dad’s gonna give me who should so ken burns as you did Sarah burns is the author of the book David McMahon
I’m trophies you tonight but David McMahon
is the third maker love this film he is also the husband love Sarah and a they have created a piece ev journalism documentary film that I think has provoked tremendous a contemplation by people in New York and now around the world about what justices but it also tells us about the city that existed in 1989 and its much different and the city
we’re all sitting in tonight and to start of tonight’s program I’d like to look at one of the
clips from the film that sets the scene in 1989 it New York in the late 1980s was completely schizophrenic divided City he was enormous wealth gushing into the city out otherwise the
financial industry switch searched beginning around 1980 to the city that had been in FB collapse for several decades turned around but there was a whole side to the city in which drug gangsters and crack and kinda hard permanently locked underclass was in place and there was enormous
suffering it was as if the worst a social moped that divided these two new york’s the city when I came in I was on the
edge over bankruptcy and people thought we would
not recover we were the city coming out of a
series of crises enormous economic crisis the school
system that was in collapse political institutions and seem to be
failing the people are not meeting their needs hold fashionable beautiful noble neighborhoods falling apart had a
course overriding was crime several things happen to me
that I just considered normal part of living in New
York City couple muggings and near muggings and I didn’t even report any of these things
just kinda figured it’s the way it is people had it worked out in their heads their block safe the streets they walk
to get to the subway to go to work they were okay their subway line they
got on the same spot on the train every day that was
okay they have figured out a safe path
through this you know garden of terrors and then thought about 84 crack came to New York City had increase crime no question about it when the crack was ap all the sudden teenagers have lots of
cash and guns and all hell breaks loose in
bedford-stuyvesant Paul hell breaks loose and caramel color
pixels in brownsville east nude who was supposed to be a freak it would
be an irrational not to be afraid but the people who suffered the most
with the rise to have criminality gang wars stroke was were
actually people we blame most of the on a soft worry young poor working-class black and brown kissed and the dominant
social message was no one cared if you lived or died think as far as i’m concerned. in the late
eighties in New York City the black community was
under assault the most endangered species in america that was a popular phrase is
the young black made april nineteenth nineteen
eighty-nine Yusef Salaam what happened that night where were you well people 1999 was a um a turning point Cove for have life so to speak you know you go from home hanging out with
friends thinking that you’re going to you know course keyboard in the park or walk
around Lake you know to mayhem so to speak breaking out you know and
you kind of looking at it from the perspective of while this is this is crazy what’s going
on here you know Kevin do you remember that night but yes I do how did it begin for you what where were you im people remember dead Wednesday night it
was on Easter vacation Salaam kids we go hang
on a little later could have no school to Monday nom at
that time I was quite gonna basketball thorn with flea bath
while side basically in Schaumburg well if that ok and one from
my youth with explain that one from one moment are playing basketball and then the next moment everything
became a blur and got to a point that I was living in the nine-year but I
was still awake well before gets to a blur you you left the basketball court why who did who who said let’s do something
else would you say let’s do something else what what what got you going you know I live
across the street from the park actually one-tenth Meghan a man I see no a group of kids entering the park at the time I follow did you know these guys I knew some from just seeing them in the
neighborhood and the son from school but that night I am with a follower follow them to the park Rehman what happened in the park well you know be when you go into the
parking you go with it complicated than is all the guys these
big guys doing you know as you walk in police you know when a bonus to see a
lot of complicated than lotta kids gather and we spent the we spent a lot of time
looking for other people that I you like for me I came in were
with a group or what a couple friends that went to school with me and I lost them I hope so that was
really spinning a lot about time spent looking for a man apart yeah Corey do you remember how you ended up in the park with that
night Connor Kennedy fried chicken after all these years 20 22 used to
infer is stoner and had a lady friend with me and his own away I’ll by the head up service which you reside you so Yusuke my way asking about was about Laurel hang i woulda and I was a Antron do you remember I violence in the park that night can you
tell me about that yes I remember balance I’ll it was versus had to do was crazy on stand there and watching some might
it be I’ll it was is I as I couldn’t believe last a day no watchman watching be I’ll yeah stadia whose on roe I think I think one of the
unfortunate reality reserve home being a child you know is the there’s a certain amount
a curiosity when you see think there’s almost like moths being
towards a fire you know and singers in 1901 when kevin
says that it was you know we live work with between
essentially we or court we who live in Schaumburg look at
Central Park is a backyard you know it wasn’t wasn’t a crime for us
to ever have gone into the park it was like you know a natural thing you know many
of us would just experiencing I’ll trying to be romantic you know so fossil matt said they would be
walking around the mir as funny cuz back then you think about
that and it was into a pleasant looking beer at the time units the
smelly and all that’s the point it was are mere you know and you know
when when Anton is talking about this idea i’ve seen violence breaking up I
think that that’s another reality that you face as a child just
kinda looking at something sale all how what what is this like this is this
is absolutely crazy you know on a lot of people who the the sometimes though understand it from
that perspective and realize that in realizing rather that a child can be a witness to something without being
a participant in something and then all the sudden now he we became
known as the courts you know and that was the
part that was unfortunate Sarah what drew you to this story well i in 1989 when this happened I was
six years old and so it wasn’t a story that I’d
followed in the news at all at that time and I learned about it first in 2003 I
was college student and I said the summer
working for civil rights lawyers thinking about going to law school and this lawyer was just then getting
involved in the civil suit that is still now ongoing ten years later in
this case and I that was how I learned about the case
and I was so shocked I think I don’t think I’d really
been exposed to a story quite like this before at least not in a contemporary setting as this and I started looking at the media
coverage and seeing this language that was used
Wilding and Wolf Pack and it to fit with what I was studying and
it reminded me a beast things I learned about in
african-american history class is about the Scottsboro Boys case and I was just shocked to see that it
happened in 1989 this kind of language being used to
describe a group of teenagers and that was in the beginning for me and I wrote
about that as an undergraduate but there is so much more to the story and that’s when I started talking to you
and trying to learn how something like this happens if if that time in ten years ago a Ken Burns said come to me in the
lunchroom with the times and start asking questions about the Central
Park jogger case I’d say wow man this is a really complicated intense story and he’d say well yeah but Sarah burns
is my daughter yeah so can I your films have covered or aspects of American life going back and to our earliest days as a country
and this one issue most contemporary project why did you take it on why I
think the preface to it is its era has as long as I’ve known her which is as
long as anyone has no um has had this fierce sense of fairness and there’s something elemental about this story that you get
at that all above the 5 men here get in the film in that we hope that we
could sir be the MN UN says for which is that complexity that you’re talking
about this is seemingly contemporary but is there
suggests it is old as the United States Americans as all the 16-19 when the first slaves arrived in this
country whenever you are pursuing is vigorously
as we all have over the last 35 40 years American
history you inevitably come up with up against the same themes
in questions that engage this one not just race class have justice and freedom love on popular culture and all these things you
know this is a complex story but you know the civil wars pretty complex
to and the narratives and baseball are complex and jazz as well but all I love
them inevitably you remind us back to that
original thing that we tend to judge people by the car color their skin and not content
of their character and I think with this film tries to do is is in some ways chided read reboot to rebalance that with it emphasis on content of character and ice
you know the five men appear show throughout the film and
and at this moment you know character is what it’s about my it’s also about telling stories so and in our next clip we’re going to see how
this story first came to the public came to people around the world really and it was something almost added the worst in the fairytale the most nightmarish stories that we tell ourselves to
frighten ourselves and I think this next clip will give us
a good taste to that and will we’ll see how all the media in New York City jumped onto this thing so if we can get back clip growing in New York City this morning a jogger
is fighting for her life after a brutal attack in central park viciously battered and unconscious
wearing only a jogging Brock her hands tied over her mouth with suspects are 14
and 15-year-olds who plays that nighttime trail of terror salt in an elderly man
attacking a mail run getting another person with a lead pipe
at one time the group is running in a pack of more than 25 you the victim is now in critical condition
at Metropolitan Hospital two skull fractures a significant loss
of blood in advanced hypothermia if she wears it slightly should suffer
from brain damage eight suspects were arraigned this
weekend Beach 14 to 17 some of the young man told police they
were just out Wilding wild things a word you won’t find in
webster’s Wilding New York City police say that’s new
teenage slang for a rampaging and wolf pack’s attacking people just for the fun the
district attorney’s office says the teenagers have confessed spokesman said some of those confessions
are on videotape a world jogging Central Park Central Park was wholly if it had
happened anyplace else other than the central
park it would’ve been terrible but it would not have been has terrible did it was for everybody not just me the crime of
the century good Kevin what is Wilding Wheldon’s now the term they actually came over that time be with an arm
precent I don’t know who came up with it but
I’ll does not a term that we ask is you they took their time in and just ran
with it it doesn’t make sense actually is
ridiculous that the even thought that and maybe this’ll famous the people who
actually thought with the were right which is not folks well one of the stories that I read at
the time said kids who were in the cells were seeing do the Wild Thing is you may remember
any songs being sung back there for totally for Tollywood so long as the weather cools rapidly
with thing a up I’ll Essar CIR you i think there’s there’s one I think I’m may be more likely reason
enough the word really came from the police who said in the press conference this is
what these kids were saying but there’s this sort of disconnect
there some some kinda mistranslation or something happening because don’t think anyone was actually
saying it it may have been to a misinterpretation have while in Wilin out which was a much
which had no a violent connotation that something
you might say about just hanging out have messing around and so
it’s possible that someone heard that but it’s really it’s
over a mystery and it is amazing that it did as kevin said become this label that stock me it’s all fixed to this day thank you you know people don’t know what happened
in this case and you walk down the street and you say %oh you’re making this film about the
Central Park jogger rape in tears oh yeah that while the Incase I remember
that I mean that’s how people so thats but what they associate with
but but for now now you know anywhere to people of color manned together commit a
crime that’s Wilding yeah you know and it didn’t applied to
the white mob in in Howard Beach in bensonhurst they were
called wilder’s that resulted in the death have a human
being color I’m so it it becomes the same you know archetypal thing is you as you
suggest this just a piece it was so out outrageous and as we now know it was
outrageous but and incredible and the real sense of
that word but we went with it because it appealed
to all the arc type all terrors and vulnerable white woman and I black mob
in this is Bertha venation gone with the wind you know in in a progressive northern
city in the end of the twentieth century so what we had was a a fictional concept the fictional world word about real events there were people beaten up on the reservoir very
badly they were homeless people who had their
food taken from them and be report on their
heads they were bicyclists who had rocks thrown at them and there
was most tragically a 28-year-old woman who was found late that night in a ditch almost dead most if the blood in her
body had left her and the police had already grabbed groups have kids who were in the park
that night and upon hearing later on that this woman was near death no identification on they decided well these guys were in the neighborhood
let’s see and so another story emerged story told in the confessions wanna call confessions interrogation and over the last 24 years we’ve learned a lot through the DNA Europe about the almost unthinkable
possibility that people will say they did something that they actually didn’t do a terrible
thing that they didn’t do and we wouldn’t really have ever believed it
and in fact we probably would never have believed that it was possible in this case I were it not for the emergency DNA to and quite coherent narrative from the
real perpetrator so the the next taper going to look at concerns those
interrogations its and next quip that we’re going to
look at and I think it’s the what are the most fascinating elements have this not necessarily for
you guys so fascinating by for people stepping or away from it how could they say some
they did something that they didn’t do it so if we can cue up that clip will will
have a look at the description of how the interrogation
took place and how this story came harkin set down he said look free and no
you didn’t do anything wrong boy all the guys right now in all the
preseason a scene that should do and you tell me well you know if they
numbered dcis which only minute my I’m doing who dis one here to help because I know
you do iti you look good kid you know this is me
you he pulls out these pics have courage said Eagles you know risky Mike no I don’t
know him illegals you see this crack so these are
key from the wood we know he did he’s going down at this point reminded I don’t know these these glasses if the
if no I’m just numb they got something in include these guys name okay if if you know if you can we do to me the
number do to you we’re looking at the people telling what happened men in the mid 30s but they’re talking about
different people together archer how old were you freemen also
fourteen-years-old Kevin you 14 yeah and Toronto where you
that night it’s a 15 you said you were 16 50 15 core you were the elder statesman for I will wear you 6n but you were the
almost in a way the youngest looking at the whole group but the handsomeness no I’m a minute the time you were
looking for kinda score for I not the fearsome character York head I’m what was it like court for you to a be in that interrogation first will
let me ask you when folks I I hope you see moving if
you haven’t your you get a chance to see the actual
videotapes I love the statements that the five
gentlemen here made Corey you discuss a little bit in the film that you had
had a hearing problem since you were quite
young yes and when you were being interrogated and interviewed that night
did do you recall how you’re hearing and your understanding love what was
being said to you how did you how did you process that I mean did you
really get what was going on owner you you know what would you think
they were were you trying to do when you spoke
with them read in New what margins fell a scramble eggs every
didn’t know what was going on is going to get the whole yeah and I was about it there’s a a moment in you videotape or maybe it’s
in the written statement remember a where you we describe the group attacking a police van a and we know that didn’t happen do you
you remember even saying that in our well its believe me it’s in the it in
the paper so there’s is many versions above the
evenings stories that you told that night they
had you on take quite a bit and Sarah do you remember Corey’s multiple statements yes there
were two Corey gave two different sign two
different written statement near two different videotapes a man’s and each
time on they didn’t make sense because the
information was wrong and the police had to go back and help
him get the right story and or the the version of the story that they
wanted here and would try it again and so they kept going back hoping that
this one would be the one that would be actually
helpful to them in the case and ultimately they you know
all these were presented at trial in Corey though he serves a longer sentence
and receive receive the longest sentence because if his agers actually ultimately convicted love
lesser crimes in large part because the jury saudis
for wildly different statements and
recognize that at least something was wrong though they
didn’t have the gots to recognize that it was the whole thing what’s wrong you know
where that comes out all the time it as in their retelling above these here you know that offers a 30 hours
with the seasoned detectives doing good cop bad cop things Youssef is confident that they’re so
angry that they’re going to take him to the back and kill them is that they just wanna go
home and after no lawyers and no food and no
parents for most to the track you know going home became a real objective to
just and the nightmare and all other cops we’re giving them what
they thought was this how where if you just say it’s another
person will let you go home but of course by saying it was another
person it made you present and implicated you in the crime and so that it’s just wanted the as you watch it I watch this hundreds of
times and you just develop this pit in your stomach because
if anybody out there still says well I would have never done this i think is you sit with them you
absolutely confident how complete how it could happen and then you also have to say their 14
15 and 16 years old and never been in trouble before had
been in the system hadn’t hadn’t known how to as many of the other
boys who were responsible for some %uh the misdemeanors and and
felonies that you describe in other parts in the park had had the experience and you how to
not make statements you had a asked for a lawyer and these guys were unfortunately the most
vulnerable because they were the most innocent I just want to remind our
audience say here and also on the web that we
have to hash tags going for this conversation
hash tag Central Park five and hash tag time stocks so you welcome to send in questions or comments as our
conversation goes on and run you knew that you had not participated in an attack on the woman do you know the other fellows who were accused of that well enough to be
confident that they hadn’t done it either or d it occur to you well maybe something maybe
they did something with that woman and I I just didn’t see it that ever cross
your mind well a imagining you know when I was in a row I know I know what
was going on is no idea and I do anything 0 the group was large who was lost so I
always came with anything like that so at the time I was like I’m gonna dude
I was gambling for yeah I know these guys I didn’t go
but I am as far as I know Gatineau I’m mad at me money withdrawn I in by Louis Armstrong
Asano when it’s like welcome I said actually I
might whose Kevin are no cabs Carol me no I never go by afro yeah I know I know
who did it all I does not endorse a large trying to
get everybody back I was just blame whoever no nice highway sour for me Raymond did you
think it was possible that a group had attacked the jogger I mean I’ve never seen a so I wasn’t
sure yeah hong I didn’t know you guys you know Hong and
so we can have in when the reproduce when when detective
heart can produce the picture of Kevin it was a bombing in
now to view you know and also did my seen the way my
scene was set up you know on hardening came in a at
though the most critical time for me and I felt
like he say me and saw I felt like you know I had to
help him help him you know and why you think
it was the most critical time because up it was it was it was during a period where a royal was
sauna lines I me like he was gonna physically on was another detective he was another sector he with the lead
investigator in my case and so he was on it was a point where he became fed up in
slammed his fist on the table any you can give me what I want any loves
me. right there’s a hot again something to stop them right and i felt like i was reflective
managed to save my life and then kicked everybody out the room
again you know he started to work his magic which was really mean you’re a good kid
and I know you do this but I need to help right you know anything with you know
coverages and I said no I don’t never seen before you know he says well you know we know
he did got a scratch on his face and that’s how it starts to formulate
and then from the heat is fed me what he thought with the facts yousef this story has emerged I love multiple crimes in the park with
the most horrible event being the attack on this
woman and its cool tied together by these statements and the press meet worldwide media has
taken up this horrible event then is screaming
and yelling about it and donald Trump is taking out full-page
ads calling for the return to the death penalty patrick buchanan suggest that the eldest the group and we’re sorry about this
Corey no offense but that the elder should be taken out in
and and executed in Central Park as an
example but you are not living in that world you were living in 0 Baba love family and friends who were confident in your innocence absolute what we sure sense though love this
outer space the asteroids that were bouncing off
your atmosphere you know this was the most dangerous
time for young people at the time you know always would hear about these
things you know as it does to think about this thing about the statistics that
they have you know that you’re gonna be dead or in jail before you reach the age
of 21 and I always wondered where that
statistic came from you know and then he you have this case which we new that we didn’t have any involvement in
its we know we need to have any involvement in any of the arm the other crimes that
happened in the park but yet as enjoy said we were all being
blamed for this whole thing and to be labeled going to be known as
one of the central park 5 was to be arm I don’t want to just say targeted
because targeted is is like such a is this a easy were you know a target
isn’t just okay to put a target on you and now you talk you know that’s not it was like they were people taking
shots at us there were people that wanted us day
there were people that the I mean it became sole a dangerous that my mother was sitting in the
audience arm decided to send me away for some time you know put me in a different from outfit I’m saying outfit but he owes she she camouflage me you know just so that
he could be alright for me to walk around you know I
had 0 fake weed or and sunglasses and so
really you know but it was because of that it
was because when you can when anyone of us came home I mean raymond
never came home from work on ARM well on bail but Kevin knows what it was
like antoine knows what it was like you know it was not a popular thing in in the sense that you being a rock
star being chased down right now with the cameras running
and so forth and so what was the most dangerous thing ever did you feel under assault for you conscious I mean you’re
kid right you’re 14 who cares with the newspapers saying
right who cares what the news is saying or do you at the time we care because we fell at the time that the
whole world is against us I was skid to Def I had when I was out on bail couldn’t go to school had to drop out
have my sisters had export me to the store 14 I can live the life of the average
kid I miss my from already and I remember
going to school I remember somebody saying this Kevin as the
Reapers above at fourteen you don’t really grass
what that means we was sex offender no with is still
hard to this day the even the CDA and I didn’t know what was going
on writers wanted to be over actually and I remember thinking it was just a
nightmare everything well then the NEX clip we’re going to
take a look at is about an escape route that you guys could have
had at the time and and offer came up that would have possibly gotten you all out if this nightmare or maybe not so if we can have a look at
the clip called copping out we will see that discussion got the one point where the poor me you
serve which one coffin and a lawyer says you know we gonna lose this case with
planned to do with seeping into a plea deal I remember
telling them you know you guys can capo but if I did
something I would cop wantonly some other time for what I did if I didn’t do anything
you can give me the rest of my life in prison you know I didn’t know what that meant
back then but I just knew that there would be no way that work up for
something I didn’t do is that will have to be or three you
guys was nobody and so we you know it’s we love each
other we fight well guess is no one Kevin you were tried %um Corey were
tried separately I don’t work of they made that plea offer to you today just they did and you obviously turned it down yes Corey you and Kevin both separately were in prison and went to a parole board and they asked you about the events in the
park that night and you said you didn’t have anything to
do with attacking the woman but you go
before parole you have to show remorse where was your remorse you didn’t have
remorse not have you had remorse not have you said to the parole board that you were sorry for what
happened even though that would have got you home earlier did it ever cross your mind
Corryton to to say let me get outta here I’ve had enough for this life inside
dome IR when you when do Correctional Facility and our about to do my job my parole hearings
had 0 had a had a sit down with my arm our
counselor humor one day she’s a white woman and she is Corey you you but to her come up to your probe
or so it’s okay you know they’re going to axe
you a city okay are you Morse who have you water before you go
there i win I was told she just so used to to assess no system to class so they can see that you trying to do
something with that sunset but even if I didn’t do anything hola Bella doing there I’m the big at is be live like a clown the
rule no route participate she’s a were all you
do is shop border addictive the two programs and nose are not over
all the pairs in it I was already familiar with me and are there sir while as well as well would you do w cosby
opener what other day Bharara said or but surely have to shortly after that I what’s my are
what’s my first for all here and our the time of order his see your you wanna says poor guys so okay
whatever the hell I mean my permanent score corey was so they said okay are are you remorseful about work looked at each other well for the 40 as I do anything all okay you want it up would admit so so they just said Oh miss the winds lost over sure you don’t thought id say a satire et cetera no matter what do you come
down or not I kinda wish we had whole lot more time to
do maybe fifty seven years ago don’t bother
coming down close would you come down your teacher to you as a while so I had to swallow there were now and we never saw him
again are I went to I went to church I’ll right to dinner are came across as I was EM my dinner came across a meadow I met who some two men who mr in my full by I was always quite might throw so are I which medical did make a good thing in
our and not the mall repairs there’s a
whiles be up too long enough ten years so use that to fuck adding you go back
down said so how can I do that something has
happened when she does want to be brought you back from Chelsea year foul also the that showed a mangled in bed down in New
York it try to keep you up here so I did dat in history bored me solver or burn is the I guess it’s about is far from new york
is you can get from New York City’s you can get in New
York State they were sending the opposite direction have York
City well all these men come home except for
Corrie whose whose term goes on and on and on because
he was tried as an adult but the other folks come home and then in 2002 a presenter a serial sex offender in killer name tires race notifies corrections counselor that he’s the person who actually committed
the rape in Central Park the beating and your killing a that woman and he says
that he did it by himself and that story’s very well told in the film say that David McMahon and Sarah burns and Ken Burns did terrific
job both tracing the path I love the unraveling but we’re not here just a rehash the movie
we’re here to rehash has we’re here to actually see a we’re life is brought you and and
there’s a beautiful clip towards the ended the
film that I’d like to bring up and then we’re
gonna talk just it a couple minutes about that and after
that we’re going to go to some questions so if you’re interested in putting some questions to any the
members the panel start thinking about them and will will let you know will be microphones
around so if we bring up that clip that’s entitled reflections mom I’m always behind those views that it took for me lost a
lot in even now to eat only six were ICB fully in the career have a house call maybe marry I’ll have in your so I don’t
know how to regain a stuffy soldiers here in loss you well seven years of my life a month that since of me you fool in missing the average things I’ve going to
school in going to the prom justice living like a which 1415 kid and you can figure which will figure will
forgive which the loss no money to bring that time back no
money cabrini her life that was missing with the time
that was taken away rain barrel Nelson has become easier to live as it does become harder it’s always more difficult to do
something if you have this huge cap love your life
taken away from you and it’s not like just because they say okay we are
vacated the convictions that that vacated the whole prison term
the whole prison term happened it was a reality we’ve really
went through that still struggle everyday well-made who k morning in trouble were I was a king pay taxes take a market is would’ve SI kieres told Mr make talking truth came out truth came out Antron you didn’t participate in the film and to extend allowing your modern handsome
self to be filmed and photographed we got to look at you is a a young teenager what happened after you came home 0 go find a job hassle it’s an hour 0 its own come out come on come on out no look for jobs like for job numbers
bob my cousins give it rock no I went out
there for the job I got a spot sensations are well started today to hell with my name I’ll forty years after my asshole mcrae you know it’s like so I came home 96 I
realize my my name is at Rob row test mining over the money my mother got married well she never
take I have a permanent change always been Artem system as and some
acquaintance who has a Lecrae but I could help me out corny the background checks money in
popup sorry help me out israeli I mean job hopping hand it’s 10 jobs prepared on waco next doubt it but I’ll I decide to get away oh I could do it actually rain is my therapist you Ortiz gaza mosque I’ll video did they do they were totally different no I can’t
handle it I Madison WI or change my name november’s winning and so we I just read
your pals left the city all I really got these gotta let one old
is no core with me but I’ve got to know cuz
I’m so paid up I so much game you know no and that’s why I meant to type person
paternity amooo US ally of we grew up in a system no group in a system anything about it my mother on Shaw so when I left that was it no it hurts
no Tuesday I give her like I give I came over so much credit but I love how is it that some of our 10 Lefferts
but in came back but threes like a back as he is sick no look
at the movie is me and my mother no she’s what 411 no get rained every day you on a train people my face in a paper I’m very
bitter that’s why I don’t come out or two of
them 10 is half we do about that disgusted that
would be doing better than me no I just wanna get away
but notice it dragged a few by is fun could
lead singer we had it right with the trust so quick
no no side with a sentence like matter what
year reno 10 years 11 years we still fighting you still find her some I didn’t do
anything didn’t do anything that is to have some
people that ok second card it’s not like that didn’t do
it we had to do anything in it these birds this online interviews
well try to no support for fathers and I K
Press have a lot of kids here no is very different go to VOB glass house in New York was it was to
cut see we still no doubt no very busy your two
working bathrooms who is different we got love i it was ok
10 i’ll know around the time to do it but
I’ll ok have the same way column sale going artis well we say if he was doing it go ahead
and cut ten-part movie not just a distant camara nor sport nocera can then I wanna
do I would bring ray no como now 0 spd 70 a 74 and trust seventh I wanna do it over know as a sport I just two hours to
get no mixed up no say what they were sent Nov
come out I wanna go track i’m just still awake day by day but on bike but Brammertz are
you I got the house and I got the car but you live away their demeanor no there done that love your for sale me my
wife I almost every day because I got my kids don’t let the walls are are so afraid it’ll be blamed for
something to do or I like to ride the bikes about houses me my wife always gets worse nor let them make mistakes but I know what
situation you’re like to change a whole life try to get out at taken away for see the lottery for a successful you know this is PTSD all five have it and on its it’s so horrible the and what’s been so amazing is it as
well as Sarah and David and I were the privileged to be injected into their
world that fact that they do take strength
from each other is so extraordinary that and trying is lifted up by this as far away as he is you know the contacts that he has with
Raymond particularly but also cavenaugh limits is just it I think sarah said it we’re just so outrage this
isn’t an abstract cost as you can see season real real cost have people really screwing up and
still continuing to believe that they were right which which just
perpetuates all of this you know stuff that these guys have to carry Kevin I’m in this film is in a way I we think it’s been certainly been
since out in theaters since last November we
saw on PBS last night its available online
through PBS means if people are going to see this its many have already seen it what what what has this film at to you Co a change to change a life we now have a voice before in 89 such a media frenzy we was K to speak but now we take that city folk
5 and wear it as a badge because gay but this platform now this peak people feel for who we are each other
the human others before as you can. thing you’re human we have kids we will be well spoken we have hot Youssef about you this film is definitely given us an
opportunity that that was stolen from us back in 1989 and 1990 really for most of our lives you know
the opportunity for us to to be heard you know back in 1989 the only arm depictions that use all of us well that you heard a
voice for from courtroom artists and from folks
like Donald Trump folks like Tom caught at the time you
know arm really everyone who who wanted us
they wanted our heads on sticks you know in the part that amazes me is that where constantly in the public’s high
now and as the public gets a chance to travel on this journey of sorts with us is like that stories don’t match just like the false confessions didn’t
matter the story that we were repurchased doesn’t match the profiles that you see here before
you know and it’s unfortunate because people
always say to me what would you guys have been had you not getting your lives had you
not gotten your life stolen from you you know and we’ll never know all I mean you know I used to always say
that you know we’re playing catch-up but I
had to check myself one day and say I don’t even know what we catchin up to
will live in life in spite love know when most of the
things that most young people go through right filling out job applications at a
young age going on their driver’s license new
drivers test you know we do this stuff now in a slight while
you never mobile filling out our right now resume and it
amazed me because I said to myself you know book and try and I we both had tell us
up jobs we couldn’t put that we were you know still seamstress her you know for 10 years over seven years
on our resumes you know there was a gap you know
because then you had to basically give phone numbers so right give the
number to the jail or something you know right but this this is given to such a
tremendous two min this opportunity to to heal to get the therapy you know they wanted
they actually sent us all the sex therapy you know in our various jobs that we
wear and most of us got kicked out of sex therapy as part of sex therapy is that you have
to admit to the crime right you know arm but you guys took other classes right a lot of other classes and freeman
soluti absolute Ramin mentioned that after that
the film aired last night a rain was keeping
track is social media like know it’s coming in my email it was
I but there was someone that was worth
well many they’re worth repeating but one
particular you mentioned before wall once we came in I I don’t know who
percent we didn’t go back and look and basically say you know these guys
will charge tried convicted and sent to prison and
he got degrees what’s your schemes I what happen we’re going to start taking some questions from members in the audience and our mites
are set up got a couple love I couple interesting ones in command I’m from cyberworld cyberspace with a I honest says some have you started as
strangers Corey let me ask you this one so maybe
started strangers are you friends today I would like to say overall too much all I just don’t know half any not her so day going back and forth
to call it quits his job fortunately a form of self-expression
must sell to a million and a rule becoming a part of his life as well as a
partner minus Academy hell number that thirteen years later have some 80 soul all know warm soft
serve me i’d i’d metalcore read i everyday daunting years all mall I died Redbirds miss to maintain his right knee
is getting my life back both days that is given as Christmas in my mom were you I I will get I’ll I missed their food to be alive
today as corporate NY us I don’t know from I’m allow for what
really don’t know every call harder right about now
looking pretty life sounding pretty good what s but a when we hear from some in the audience yes good evening during the time the investigation a we the public we’re
told that once the DNA evidence return you would be so convincing that you with you it with the case with just
bc you the no question as you yet when the a DNA evidence %uh came back a we the public were told that
it was inconclusive I remember barry great talk show host
saying he was like into up several people putting his thumb print on the same spot thereby disabling the the police from
getting true reading so I was wondering was was it that the DNA technology which was
in its infancy a at the time unable to determine a a well get it through reading or did the police just ignore the event
said no what happened is the following there was a very bloody crime scene
there was a victim who lost most everybody fluids and who had been who had on her body both here and semen they came from one person and one person only they got a match between the hair and the semen
or the sperm and it was the same person but it wasn’t
any of these five it was meant I S race so what they then said to accommodate this unknown six-person was that well these were not the only people to take
part in the attacked there was some others who had
yet to be apprehended and so that was the the DNA technology
did what it was supposed to do but that other person doesn’t show up in any love the confessions selling the
fact that they have the police have his DNA race was arrested later that same year
and they were able to use his DNA to connect him to other crimes
so enjoy the same detectives are working on these two cases so there’s there’s opportunity to make
that connection but instead of doing that they looked at
these negative DNA tests and they figured out how to essentialist among under the rug to to
take advantage have the public’s lack of knowledge
about this as you said new form of technology but it did it did what it was supposed
to do and it actually excluded these guys and the rest of the
kids who were in the park that name in the others they tested their DNA trying to figure out mash it but there
was clearly and they knew clearly that there was one sample was not some mixture that
made it hard to tell it was not inconclusive it conclusively excluded them it was not multiple from France on top thing and is
documenting also if you look at a book by Manning
paralegal what the deal of its any toes which after all is such a
powerful of is also something all radios way let’s have this in 2005 he tells you
when he gets a call from Lisbon letter sheik brings the most is she told me
feel fill a cup kicked in the stomach to DNA dozen matches any 25 boys so what do we do how to get a conviction
and in that chapter tell you how to formulate the plan how to put just art is hoping to get to
to give us our convicted wit a question over here I was
wonder from both sides how the process worked
in terms of the idea and then approaching approaching Central Park five to
participate in this project kinda what that with the approach relies
on what the response was and then also what their status as the
civil citizen kinda how their how the participants on
prosecuting side responded okay well let let’s do the
film process question first well I and began I initially written
this paper as this as a in college um that
was just library research you know into the media
coverage but when I started the rectory into a book I knew that I
needed to talk to these guys and so that was the first thing I
started talking to their lawyers trying to
convince them to let me who MRI a to to have interviews to be able to talk to
them and and really amazing thing considering what
these guys went through being dragged through the mud by the
press they’ve really had no reason to trust anyone to try to tell their story but
when I did approach them they actually all were I think sorta
ready to tell the story as hard as that was and I think appreciated that someone was trying to tell the story hopefully
properly for the first time and so they’ve agreed right pretty much
right away but it was over years up doing
interviews as they worked on a book I think that we
got past it kinda have who what when where and to some of the
stuff that’s harder to talk about I think that that’s still evolving to this day on but what that meant was that by the time
we begin working on the film The Book sorter came first for the most part by
the time we started working on the film there was a relationship there and we
had we had begun we’ve been doing interviews
over years and years at that point and so I think in my my sense is that for the
interviews the filmed interviews there is a sense that it was time disorder open up and that maybe there is some catharsis and
being able to do that can I haven’t you your thoughts on that service ever we had so much babygirl for all these years for you know kinda
like when youth shaker photo and %uh the Explo we was
ready for that story to come out we didn’t trust anybody within the media I was just touching on that glove I felt
that when I met so a long time ago things like and we was
just ready one thing about us that the fire was
that you act earlier was that you know how we view which are we
friends we’re now friends brothers and we and with wings on which came out what came
out with me became very tight-knit everybody came it’s also who had the
earned their way in right because the way that the media did a so hard to be
back in eighty nine and and even after that everybody
lawyers arm anyone keen Sarah and doing a research and then hold Thomas
the fax was her running away right and so we got to this
point love you’ll doing interviews with the booking
don’t have used the film you know we can talk to Sara in C++
compilers CSP does I can can leave going to expose
the facts were for work and and I was but Gables I’ll open it up by the weekend do you
happen to know the title love that book would worth mentioning but I love the
books our the the Central Park five Chronicle the city Wilding is the original publication but I think the
first paper was representations race done and
we’re talking about yeah interest Amazon and yeah over exuberant now it has a
secondary said for a paper iraq has a different
subtitle but it’s all called the central okay II wanna mention reference when he are your questions about the losses I’m the the this set form that you see
tonight is not complete we a don’t have
representatives the police department here the City
Corporation Counsel or the district attorney’s office or
David McMahon word David McMahon who said one three filmmakers but the this city in all its representatives were invited to take
part we would have very much welcome to hear from the police commission just turney the
Corporation Counsel they declined to participate and as they did when our film your over and
over and over again we tried every few months but let’s ask about something now they the the film is out they suddenly seem
very interested in it can would you tell us what you have you know the so such a frustrating
process particularly for sparing me is that we would approach I’m the interested detectives and and district attorneys and other
officials and sometimes didn’t get the courtesy of a return phone call a and we did this all throughout the
production and in fact this is the most journalistically pure
have any film we’ve made insofar as there is no third-person narration we just have a
handful of total cars that just tell you the facts ma’am and it when choosing a su the film came
out they subpoenaed oliver outtakes and notes a a federal magistrate in February I’m quash that subpoena ans and rebuked
the city for that and they’ve now try they’ve shifted
tactics in our appealing that its it’s where one small
frustrating step in this 10-year serve pulling out of
this but one of the things they said the subpoena that this was a one-sided advocacy peace the probable cause it’s
just you know it’s like some other stuff I
got at the end when the civil war came out there are some people particularly in the south didn’t like
the way it turned out blame the messenger there are there there are people there
are people in this case who can’t stand to this day the truth and want to blame the process
above the messengers in this case and their are completely still wedded to these alternative insane narratives that would figure out that if
they can just delay it you know these guys are gonna just walk
away at some point give up and they’re not going to walk away we
not a bus can walk away from this yes ma’am a gentleman it’s a pleasure to
be with you tonight producer get a little closer sup that any better talk louder louder every penny this case happens when I first came to new york and having been born and raised in
Independence Africa away integration is a non-issue I was
horrified at the viciousness love coverage by the
press and the name-calling I didn’t know I’m as much as I know now about
african-american history but it seemed to be going back to the 19th century in I mean I really felt that they wanted
to stream up and when I saw pictures if you new all such children he really upset me would be broke my heart
your story and I saw the film when it first came
out and since then I’ve been trying to tell
everyone to see it and thank you I’m did you have a
question yes yeah I wanted to ask you sorry I’m just making us all about me on
time yeah but I wanted to leave their first
awarded other people in other countries don’t have some with these attitudes and I’m very
sorry had to go through this but I wanted to know have you have you
managed to get good jobs now do you have life even after all those missing years I
mean is still you know we we we take it day by day you know we went through so much I mean
we have been able to secure jobs arm but we still walking home with their
balls are on our back you know we still working with that
label the label wasn’t going anywhere and will we be collectively was we came
together and we embrace the label and soul arm what we started to do it
without the go are we so to speak two kids in high schools and colleges an
arm and also be key part about their p they
became part of our healing process right now you guys you
know like who dis also an arm and so arm that’s how we started to get back on
track was to invest in so the kids governor by
want to invest in us back in nineteen now thank you on I just do it we’re were coming towards the end we got a few
more minutes and I would encourage everybody to keep your questions somewhat pointed in appreciate that everybody gets a shot I’ll I’ll get to the point but first I United 10 at that there are hundreds if
not thousands love innocence who are in journalists we
speak and I came along today with jabbar Collins who is sixteen years and Corinne Bellamy who is also an
exoneration fourteen years while is Michael quick question a you know if
I was on a parole board I would not get parole to either the New
York City Police Department or the district attorney’s office which shows absolutely no remorse how how do you explain this is a cut this is a complicated
dynamic which is as old as america itself it has to do with race it has to do with class it has to do
with justice it has to do with just human error you know when the Duke
white Duke lacrosse players were a false leak charged with rape that case was fairly quickly it’s they
still went through hell fairly quickly dismiss the prosecutor
fired the prosecutor disbarred and the prosecutor went to jail now and they weren’t paid millions dollars
and their paintings and although I don’t believe any and spend a night in jail
either so we’ve got a real difference and there’s a real glaring answer you know having to do with race I in
class and affordability but you you’re sitting
here with a that by the way took place in North
Carolina on admittedly a serve Haven education but on it’s outrageous that this is still going on in New York
City there there needs to be a period at the end this run on sentence that is all about
injustice thank you sir good evening good evening my name is the bridal gentleman first
thank you for validating what many was back in highschool I’ll 1689
same age as you guys we knew that it was it was a hoax in the
classrooms in the lunch rooms when you do something was up thank you
to to check the who when mister magic show aka blue you like
in ninety and and and put the questions in a young minds and and took it back to the days I’ll
you know slavery made a stink I and you know watching the movie he
painted a picture that sorta like the communities the colo went along with
the media but there was there was many others who we didn’t believe it an EU being a yo-yo
valid anyway many lists unlike knew all along on as an educator I wanted to ask you
now in how do you select transfer year this
story to you know young men and women of color
today I’ll and link it to subtle like their social
justice struggles and that you have a more ends in the
things that are happening now hire you are we going to connect your story to
their story I think come I think whether the the the best things about survive in prison is that had donald Trump has way we would have been only known in history
books today and the fact that we are living part of
history the fact that we can be living examples of what in just this
means and inspired if you’re still get out
there like many of us have been in many of the rallies 31 Martin for a monogram you know on come on agree you know where
out the all the time living on energies to make
that happen you know and I think that that right
there is where it’s at the fact that they wanted us to die
social thats in with with this turned out to be was
now we have a platform we’ve been given a test we have a test
the mall we can give their testimony back out there we can share and we can also help folks
I mean is so many young people who benefit from our stories because when we go back out there and
talk to young people would talk to warriors and talk to future prosecutors
and future police officers you really get a sense so what happens
when justice is denied what happens when the system
fails you you know in this right here this is the
example overwhelm in spite of it all you know work land also to have a lot to
young folks here in the audience tonight from high schools in all around the city
and we thank PBS in the New York Times making that
possible first time much all is easy once you do for said arm you guys are awesome going to work thanks closer to sold out so quick he make more my question is how did other convicts to reach you like
when a major stories in jail you want who was here how did other convicts treat
them when they trudeau’s treat for you sorry
bonuses a article have well you know it was it was
rough in the beginning because people you know we assume that you communities
bombing you have this label or a person the only thing that from that in prison
as a child molester you can sit at the bottom in a battle and and you know for me I never make or
we never got bilbao and soul we have to go all very quickly really fast a young age and you know when when when when I got shipped one of
the present and I was there for five years you know people start to recognize the
character and it’s not the sea like we did me this is in a heap its you know and then
we went to get GD then we went to give up so she big reason and we want to
become model prisoners and then is when a little respect us to
be implemented that people thought to see that we’ll
meet this this isn’t you know the real paper isn’t true because this is a human I’m watchin
every day what we’re gonna go into a lightning round quick questions quick question their how this is for you actually wire being a member of the media then and now
and it seems like there’s still a lot of sensationalism just running to come to a verdict on a
story how do you think the media has chains or
not changed I think question is has you in nature
changed and I do not believe it has changed I
think many bus have learned from who lived
through this story and I know many of my
contemporaries are really really taking a hard look at what they and we all a busted in the 1980s and 1990s and it’s been a
very valuable exercised I don’t say that inaccuracy in sensationalism are eliminated by any means though guy
and one really quick thing do that I think what’s so interesting is that a good day
love the media that had been so vociferous in in splashing this all over the tabloids
in the nightly news if it bleeds it leads were relatively silent at exoneration
except for those reactionary Savoy SES that were permitted over the
last decade to really describe the narrative so in some ways where still trying to
push off no longer 13 years Ive injustice but now 24 this coming Friday years have been
just as has a result other media that has been he sensually
passive in this one of the great exceptions is setting
up with us tonight in in the person Jim Dwyer but for the most
part this is a miserable story about the press yeah good evening know you know you guys said a lot about how you turned down offers to you now you know
just late preserve your dignity um I was
wondering at such a young age how were you able to
muster up the strength to go on and pursue your you know keeping your dignity in keeping you good
the me this was a case where we have any choice you know we didn’t
get any breaks winning order you know above model reasons you know or
something that’s are like to meet new facility with the
max jails we dig into the braces for was a
work-release are an ER you know we had to leave a
conditional release with him a couple words the forced our hand you know you said
this was now only was it a 510 515 is with the death
sentence there was a social def we was not supposed to survive it so we
had no choice yes ma’am I’m ask about legal representation try you have to go to trial with public
defenders it seems to me that there were many
places challenges could be raised yes leads lets our want you quicken
dresser you know Michael Joseph who appears in our film
who represented intron was actually only above the defense attorneys who was
paid by the court use a private attorney fees paid by the court I think he did by far the best job for
his client any of them not but I think a fantastic attorney a
necessarily would have helped Youssef was represented by Bill consular
on his appeal and counselor told you stuff that he
didn’t think that Jesus Christ himself could have gotten them off so I think that it was an impossible
situation but the interesting thing is that the
other four lawyers were overtaken by the families and actually provided less competent representation and the thanks public 31 quick quick he what you I if this in their you good ever seen a really this happen again in
present-day how do you feel the NYPD in the media would act upon it
well advice he gave to the use going through it what advice would you give to who use
going through the situation asked for a lawyer right yeah demand
German know your Miranda rights asked that the interrogation the film
from the beginning not after they’ve gotten thirty hours
have practice at a view but I think maybe most importantly what
you raise their the fact that this could happen again I think this is
a different city today it looks different bills are in the ways of the
beginning here but it’s really not that different and
things like this happen all the time this is not an isolated
case is not something we can look back on and say 0 it was the eighties I this Intel so I I’d like to I were or just bad
timing I just like to say that the importance I love a strong
adversarial system good defense lawyers good judges good
prosecutors good detectives a curious and skeptical media are so valuable to our society and that you were here to I talk about this historic wonderful film fills me with great hope and I wanna thank you for coming and I
wanna thank all these folks appear who ever given a sec the no it